Chip Higgins on Servant Leadership, Momentum, and Leading Through Change

We break down why leadership is the real growth engine in business and why results only scale when trust does too. Chip Higgins shares a momentum model for small business owners and the people-first habits that keep culture strong under pressure.

• Chip’s path from banking to small business coaching and consulting
• Business momentum as mass times velocity and how leaders influence both
• The leadership test that comes with bigger scope and culture responsibility
• Avoiding manipulation by leading with authenticity and emotional intelligence
• Handling poor performance with honesty, dignity, and clear standards
• What to do when a leader does not enjoy people
• Repairing leadership mistakes through apology, accountability, and composure
• Closing the gap between client-facing excellence and internal team care
• Incentives and culture design that prevent diva behavior
• Moving from peer to supervisor using trust, coaching, and clear reality
• Leading through rapid change by studying deeply and evaluating AI wisely
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this podc...

Transcript

Welcome And Why People Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Unpack Podcast with your host, Leadership Consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now, to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Well, good morning, everyone. This is Ron Harvey, Vice President and Chief Operating Officer for Global Course Strategies and Consulting, which is a leadership firm really based on the fact that people always matter. And we spend all of our time really helping leaders become better to take care of the people that really get the work done in their companies. Because once you get the leadership, it's not about how technically good you are, it's about how well you are with people to get them to do things that need to get done. So we have real organic conversations and always invite guests. And they always come on and we don't have any questions prescripted. We'll talk about leadership. So we don't know where we're gonna go from there. And you guys know me well enough. We've been doing this going on three years now. We have fun, but we're very transparent and we have fun. So hang in with us for about 20 minutes as we dive into it. Um

Chip Higgins On Banking And Coaching

SPEAKER_01 1:03

and at this time I'm gonna go ahead and invite our guests uh to go ahead and introduce themselves and share what they want, which is what I always do. I never try to remember bios and I don't try to dress it up. I let them tell us what they want us to know about them. So, Chip, you know, welcome to the stage, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Fantastic, Ron. Thank you so much for having me on. My name is Chip Higgins. I'm uh uh in Nashville, Tennessee, and uh spent about 40 years in the banking industry, uh, mostly working with small business owners, um, you know, directly at the beginning, and then kind of in executive management roles where we were trying to organize the bank's resources for the small business owners. So I uh you know I have a deep love for you know business owners in general. Um and uh I guess it was you know on the leadership topic, uh 2011. I had uh I had been a John Maxwell uh fan for a long time, probably 10 years. And uh I used to joke with my kids like if I ever had a chance to deliver John's material, I jump on it. So uh anyway, one one of my kids, you know, they always hold you accountable. So I got a text like, have you have you heard he's starting a team? And I was like, Oh boy, you know, now I gotta put put my money where my mouth is. But that was a great experience. You know, I was I was in the first uh group of people to join John's team in 2011 and thoroughly enjoy teaching his leadership principles. And I think um, you know, where I am today, I I left banking in uh 2019. Um I've been back a few times here and there, but uh overall that was when I made my decision, it was 2019, uh, to start Bisics, uh, which is a small business conduct uh coaching and consulting practice. And um, you know, that there was a lot of leadership impetus to that because you know, I think that that is a place where small business owners really struggle is uh understanding what true leadership is and applying it to their businesses. And, you know, when you when you look at these failure rates have never changed, and all the time I've been in banking, you know, 40 almost 45 years now, um, you know, it's still a 50-50 chance you're gonna make it in the first five years. And I go back to a lot of John's teachings about the lid and you know how far you can go based on your leadership ability and that type of thing. So my book, um, The Busics Way, Powering Your Small Business to Maxim Momentum, uh, was published with Forbes in April 2024. And uh what the book does is really document my philosophy that tries to simplify uh what we do in leadership is moving people forward. And uh so it's based on the idea of momentum, and um it came from a place of hearing people talk about momentum a lot, and uh I kind of would walk out of meetings thinking, well, it sounds like they want more, but I don't I don't really know like where the momentum is like you know, it's like you kind of have that sense you you know, you know, the wind is in your face or whatever. And so I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a great um physics student in high school, but like it's such a simple formula as the one I remembered mass times velocity, and I started down a path of just trying to unpack that for business. And uh, you know, it's uh a universal law I had in my mind that you know this has to apply, but I couldn't find anybody that had really like intentionally said, if this is momentum here, this is momentum in your business. So that's what I do now. I coach on that. Um, have a great time doing it. I love to speak on it, and um, I think it's eye-opening for most people, you know, when you start picking the formula part and you find is you know, there's 10,000 plus business books out there. Yes, yes, they all they all address it obliquely, you know. It's like uh, and and so what you can have, you know, if you believe in mass times velocity, you can have your toolkit that you you choose whose ideas you pack in there. I mean, they have to fit you, you know that as a leadership uh as a leadership gear yourself. I mean, that you can't take someone's idea that doesn't match who you are as a person and have it be successful. So that that's what I that's what I'm doing. I I I love it, I love entrepreneurship and you know, I still love the idea of banking. I think banks are so important our community, and you know it's just been an industry that um it's shrunk, you know, the number of banks in the United States has shrunk by 75% since I started. So uh yeah, so a lot a lot a lot of a lot of banking, you know, in the latter half of my my career was really uh, you know, consolidations and systems conversions. And uh what I what I love about banking is people legitimately being in the community, finding people, helping them grow toward their goals, and you know, just giving good advice, uh sound advice that'll that'll that'll help them be in it for the long term. So I have rambled on, uh probably the most rambling guest you've ever had, Ron, but maybe I'm the most complex person. I don't I don't know. Anyway, that's me. Uh that's me.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

You you did a great job. You even dropped in, you know, the word unpack. So, you know, uh, I love that you the language and it naturally just flows. And that's the beauty of just of having a conversation versus scripted, is people get to be themselves. I mean, you have a book out, you went from banking, um, John Maxwell, you know, a member of the Maxwell team, you know, and you wanted to figure out how do you continue to serve a question when you think about banking, you think about where you are now, it can you say where where did it click for you that you were tested around your leadership and you had to figure it out

The 2008 Leadership Test

SPEAKER_01 6:18

what was that test for you? Every leader gets tested. There's a magic moment that tests us in a role of leadership. What was that moment for you that happened that that tested you to see how effective you're going to be as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah, I think I think the big test came probably um and I I I had a few good ones along the way, but you know, the the the the the the the the the big hurdle was uh 2008. And uh, you know, I I think I I I went I I've been through everything that any leader's ever been through. It's like you know, you think you're a hot shot producer and then you have a team, and you know, guess what? The team is all your friends that you used to complain with, you know, about the management. You know, it's like you so you gotta get it.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Now you're the boss.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah, yeah. Like you gotta you gotta you gotta put that mantle on and you know, you you you learn a lot along the way, but you know, I think for me it was that step into something much, much bigger. You know, I I managed teams of you know 10 or 12 people and I had a unique opportunity at this bank that I was working for that uh they you know they really liked what I was doing with this uh business banking team. And they said, look, you know, we're gonna make a business line out of this, and you know, we want you to run it. And so it's like I went from you know, a team in Nashville to, you know, all across the state of Tennessee. I think we had 60 or 70 producers plus, you know, uh a number of assistants and that type of thing. And it was the first time where I felt like I had I had the responsibility for the culture about how that line of business was going to work and how people would be viewed and treated and um what what things I could do to magnify the importance of them becoming you know the most that they can be in the role that they have. And um I I remember I remember, you know, at the time, I mean it was also the first time I ever got an executive coach. I mean, that's how you know, you know, the stress when like you go to the bullpen for help, you know, it's like you you know you're stressing. And she was she was just an amazing person. And um, you know, she she really helped me with the authenticity of, you know, what you know, Chip, it if all these people weren't, you know, in the C level staring at you, like what would you do? And um, I just remember, you know, the courage it took to have we had we had an all-day uh professional spa day, basically, and it was it was all your strength, you know, strengths finder, it was, you know, all these things about their own authenticity and their personal brand. And I mean, there's just tremendous joy in that for me, Braun. I mean, I just feel like you know, sometimes we we step into a sheet of music and everybody's kind of marching along. And like when people have that moment that uh I have someone running this group that believes there's something unique about me that can be brought to bear for the mission that we're on. Uh, it's it's so it's so liberating and energizing. And I don't know, as a human being, I I love to see that excitement about a person and their sense of self, you know. But it takes a lot of guts too, you know. I mean, you're working in a hierarchical organization that you know is not very progressive. And you know, I just uh you know, I probably looking back, I wouldn't have called it a professional spa day. You know, I would have called it something else, but I mean it was definitely left field when I when I decided to put spa in there. Not not the best choice for the culture. But um, you know, there's just uh there's just a uh an amplitude of responsibility that comes with it that's more than I see these people every day. You know, it's like how do you communicate with people you're not with every day? You know, the integrity, uh, especially with people that don't know you well, you know, it's like you know, you're you're suddenly responsible for leading people that um you might have met once or twice, but they don't know your core. So tremendous energy, you know, the the the energy you find in yourself to pour into other people, you know, not selfishly, manipulatively, but just I want to have uh an authentic connection with you. It's gonna take some time, but uh I'm willing, I'm willing to give the time to make sure that you know we're all connected with each other and move in the same direction.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, yeah.

Leading Without Manipulation Or Fear

SPEAKER_01 10:22

I'm glad you're sharing that, Chip. A couple of things that I want to unpack. I mean, you said some phenomenal stuff in there. I'll go with the latter part of the conversation. How do how do leaders, you know, at that level when you're in that position, there's a lot of pressure on you, expectations and deliverables, you know, return on investment, all those things. How do leaders not get caught up in manipulating and and doing nice things just so you can get really what you want out of people? How did you navigate that?

SPEAKER_02 10:46

I I think it's one of the hardest things, Ron, honestly. I mean, I I think that you know, in the end, we're all afraid. Uh, we're we're we're afraid of what's been what's been put on us and uh the expectation and what it's gonna look like if we fail. And you know, we just kind of turn it, turn it on everybody that's working with us. And I think I think for me what helped was knowing what that's like on the other side and just feeling like I wanted it to be different for people. And um I I find I found a space where you can you can hold the end result and be um really authentic and encouraging to people to get after it. And um I think the hardest part is like even even in a state of kindness and and cooperation, that you you you have to have that integrity that if someone in all of that is not performing, that you still have the guts to say, I don't think this is the right job for you. I mean, it's uh it and and you know, I think the my I don't know how it is for you, but you know, my my navigation to that uh where I could deal with it because you know I j I genuinely love people. I mean, I you know it sounds like a platitude, but I do. I enjoy people of all kinds. Um is just is just an awareness that um it's not good for anybody, you know. And it's like you know, when you when you see someone struggling and they're not, you know, they're not able to achieve what's being asked of them in this role, I I think there's a place for you know affirmation, but also encouragement that there's something that will give them a lot more joy and satisfaction than what they're doing. And um that that's a that's a hard road. I mean, you know, that's um I don't know. I mean, I'm not I'm not saying that to like compliment myself, but yeah, I thought I think what we're what we're talking about without saying the word is just emotional intelligence of uh honoring a lot of relationships. I mean, these are you have relationships up, across, down, whatever, and like how how you develop a heart and uh a wisdom and a sensibility about how you manage that and to always honor the person. I mean, uh, you know, it's like you that's one of the big, you know, I don't even know if that came from John or not, but like I I've always tried to say, you know, uh there's a whole person coming into work here, and uh the person is more important than the work. We may end up in a place where that person uh isn't a fit here anymore, but I'm not gonna be a conniving, you know, you know what, and play a lot of head games and be passive aggressive and ice them out and you know, make them want to leave and you know lose sleep at home with their family because you know the boss is being distant and they don't know what's going on. You know, it's just uh there's so many horrible ways of handling that situation in corporate America. And I just feel like we can be honest with each other about what's working and not. And you know, what I found, I don't know if you found this too, but um, you know, I think I think at the beginning, like in situations where it's best for everybody to move on, you know, there's an initial um anger and resentment, and you know, for me, like guilt. Um, but I I haven't, I really I really can't remember a time where three or four months down the road, everybody hasn't said thank you. I mean, you know, I mean, this was this was good, good for you, and it was good for me. I'm doing this now, and I I feel great about it. I mean, I I just haven't when you handle it honestly. Uh I I I just you know, I find I find it's worse when you're manipulative and uh you know you keep jacking the goals up or moving the goalposts or playing head games with people because you don't like them or whatever. I mean, it's just uh I mean, come on, we're we're grown-ups, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, and I think it speaks a lot to your character too. And I think you gotta be really, you know, you said a couple things, you

Handling Poor Fit With Integrity

SPEAKER_01 14:24

know. Um, the part about when you're working with people and taking care of people and you're doing a place of being authentic. What do you tell people that you know you mentioned something that that don't really like people, but they're in a leadership role, like enjoy people. I even use the word love people because you kind of got to love people for me to have some kind of affection towards them as a human being. There are some leaders that that don't really you know enjoy people, but they're in leadership roles. What do you say to that leader?

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Um, what I well, I mean, I can't say that I've ever ever done we've been there before. We've been there. I'm practical too. Yeah, people got on their nerves.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah, people are something else.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah, I'm I'm a I'm a you know, I think emotionally aware person, but I'm also practical. You know, I think there's um, you know, I know that they know how to open the door and kick me out too. But um, you know, I I I think that um the the bet the best thing that could happen is to really ask questions about what your expectations of of people are and whether they match up to the way that you're treating them. You know, I I just uh you know, I think that there's so much science today, you know, I I don't think you'd have to go far into Harvard, you know, business review or any of it to say, you know, people that feel threatened, uh feel unsafe in an environment are not gonna perform. So here we are, you know, you want high results, and you have people that are burning so much energy out of fear that they're never they're never gonna, you know, have the gold medal run. You know, so I mean it's it's just completely factual nonsense. And um, you know, what what I've found that um usually happens, I don't again, I don't know if this is your experience, but I think that um what I've seen more more often than not is that the the board, the board or the ownership of a company is not blind. I think they recognize, you know, especially if you're doing any kind of culture survey, I mean, things pop up. And so I think they end up saying, well, you know, what are the gifts of this leader that um he he or she needs to stay here? Um and if their executive skills in raising money, communicating with the investment community, uh just like brilliant strategic thinking, whatever it is. I mean, if if they are if they're worth it for the company, you almost always find an executive officer come in between. And um they don't they don't really have uh you know the the day-to-day with the staff, uh, you know, that they that they can remain in a in a very important role, but uh you can see cultures change overnight with that one executive officer position that says, hey, you know, we're not going anywhere if we're not going together. Uh let's get started. I mean, it's like you know, you'll hear you'll hear you know things like people first or empowerment now, or you know, there'll be a sea change of culture that comes in and uh everybody kind of breathes a sigh of relief. And the only person that has to deal with it then is the executive officer. So, you know, you better find someone with the with a thick skin that's that's loving and caring, you know. Yeah, that that's my that's my worldview. I mean, it's so hard to manage up into a bad situation, Ron. I mean I remember this guy, you know, this neighbor of mine, he worked for uh PeopleSoft years ago, and um he was frustrated and uh walked into his boss and you know he's like, you know, I just I just have to be honest with you, you know, this was happening. The guy's like, okay, uh pack up today's your last day. That was it. I mean that that you know, so it's it's a lot of finesse, you know. But uh, you know, ultimately, you know, I think you'll find a lot of turnover in those situations, and that's when the board starts asking questions, is like, why why can't we keep people here?

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Yes, yes. I think it's important

When Leaders Do Not Like People

SPEAKER_01 18:09

too. I mean, when you when you think about you know us as leaders, and and can you share a moment where you you didn't make a good choice or a good decision when dealing with people? And and how did you correct it? And I'll and I'll go first. I mean, I can tell you I you know, I can remember a moment when someone had done something, I lost my cool with them. I responded in a way out of character, and and I will tell you, I went to that person say, first, let me apologize to you. Out of character, not who I am, and I need to be able to control my emotions in that situation. Yeah, the results are important, yes, I was frustrated, but it's still Dutch not allowing me to show up the way I showed up, and I don't want that to be the model. So I had to make sure that my audio matched my video because I was saying one thing, but I was doing another, and it was it was confusing my workforce. So I had to go back and clean that up. And and I live by that now, though, Chip. I say, hey, if my audio doesn't match my video, hold me accountable. Oh if I'm not doing what I that was important for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

You know, I'm la I'm laughing, Rom, because you know, I I think we um we all have an awareness of how we've grown over time, and like I I cringe when I think about 16-year-old chip, you know, it's like yes, we all do. Thank God somebody you know got me on the right track. Uh and it's this and it's the same way with leadership. I mean, especially like you know, in the in those first roles where it's like, you know, uh you're you've been a good producer, it's like, hey, you know, we want to keep them, let's give them a you know, management role. And now you're producing and managing. And I think that player coach is a place where you can really get out of character. You have these uh polar opposite kind of like, you know, you're you're trying to hold things together, make it good for your employees, you have your own production pressure and you're in the middle of you know, just the environment of you know any company. I think at month end or quarter end, you know, things happen. And I think that, you know, what you said is exactly what I learned is like you, you know, you've you've got to communicate that uh we're human, we're imperfect, we're gonna find ourselves in situations that are extremely stressful and we may make mistakes. Uh and so when you're when you're asking for that um that grace or forgiveness from people, the other part of it is that uh you know, you need to show it back. And uh, you know, when people uh people don't show up the way that you hoped, um it's it's it's more of a coaching opportunity than a time for vengefulness or uh, you know, I'm the boss, I'm gonna show you how it is. It's just like, hey, come here, you know, you're you know, you're you're a great producer. Uh, I don't know what's going on, but you know, I I found this to be a little out of character. And uh what you know, what's going on with you? I you know, I want to understand what's going on with you. And that really, you know, that really solidifies it because I mean you're right. I mean, you've got to love people. I mean, to be in that role, like you can't pretend. And uh, you know, I I truly cringe at like losing my losing my cool many times. It's like, well, shit, why are you doing this? It's alone, you know, it's like, you know, and then you look back, it's like, well, you know, look at all the pressure points, like the customers bothering you, they want the deal, you know, there's stuff going on inside the bank, and it's like you're trying to please so many people and like you lose it. And uh I've you know, you you just you just learn like composure and equanimity in a leader is so critical, like to be the steadiest person that they know. But guess what? You know, we're still gonna trip. I mean, there's still like you know, it's it's the blind side moments. Like you think you have it all together, and then it's like you know, you get a call from an executive and they change the goals, or you know, it's like you know, it's just like okay, I'm I'm going for you, you gotta it's almost like you have to leave and go for a walk. Like, you know, I am not I'm not safe to be around for the next four or five hours to like digest this and process it in a way I can get it out without harming anybody, you know. I mean, it's just uh it's human. And you've got to, I mean, I think you've got to have that it goes it goes to humility as a leader, you know, and I think. I always I always end up talking about uh when I when I'm talking on on podcasts about leadership, I end up talking about my first and probably my most favorite leadership book, Leadership is an Art by Max Dupree. And you know, his premise is, you know, um uh the first mission first job of leaders to define reality and the last is to say thank you, and in between we serve. I mean, that's fundamentally his leadership principle. And uh, you know, you you've got to you've got to have that humble servant heart about it, but also have standards, you know, it's uh it's it's complicated. Yeah. Man, I'm I'm gonna have some bad flashbacks the rest of the day, Ron.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

So something that's showing

Repairing Mistakes And Staying Composed

SPEAKER_01 22:43

up, too. Something that's showing up in you know uh in in work that we do um and we enjoy it, but something that's showing up, how do you get leaders, you know, that that's client-facing, and they they end up doing a really, really good job external for the clients and the people that that that are that they're serving. But if you ask the staff internally, they they get a different type of treatment. So externally we're doing well. Internally, our team is is feeling like they they care more about the customer than us.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Yeah, I think um, you know, I've I've seen you know in in banking, it's it's funny in banking, you know, depending on the kinds of clients that people have, you know, they they can they can take on the characteristics of the clients. You know, big corporate accounts or extremely wealthy people, like all of a sudden you become them and you're a little hard to handle inside the bank. Um and I I I think that what producers uh embrace, you know, true, you're true, like long-term hardcore producers. I think what they understand more than anybody else is results and getting getting results. And I think what's forgotten is you know the the potential in the people that are you know at back in the office or in support roles or whatever, that um they can magnify the results uh many times over if they trust them with certain parts of the job and they treat them as you know uh talented human beings and ultimate respect, that they're you know, they're in a very important job. It's different than the producer's job. But um, you know, when when they get involved in relationships or they're asked for ideas or even asked, like, what do you what do you notice about this customer that I'm not seeing?

unknown 24:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Uh, you know, it's it's it's opportunity for somebody that's out, you know, out on the street chasing down business, they're busy, they're putting the proposal together, whatever, like they get myopic about their role. And that's what I believe that's what resonates the most with uh people, people that are producing is you know, these aren't just people that are trying to make you help you close the deal. Like, you know, you're all you're all one unit. And um I worked at uh I worked at this bank, uh Pinnacle that um, you know, is consistently like top 10 best places to work. And um, you know, like against the culture, you know, what what they what they did was uh you know, it's a it's a team, it's a team incentive. Like everybody, everybody gets the same, you know, and like so you got you got you know, percentage-wise uh of your pay. And so, you know, you you you have these uh pr producers that are not really allowed to be the prima donna, like I'm gonna squash everybody while I get my you know 100% base pay payout or whatever. Like I'm I'm gonna get what chip gets back here, he's doing all the loan documents, uh, you know, the same percentage. And the loan document person is feeling like I'm I got skin in the game. Like I'd like to help, I'd like to help this guy because it's gonna help me. And I find that, you know, uh as incentive systems, you know, and and you know, banking was slow to adopt incentives for all the regulatory reasons and that type of thing. But as incentive systems have grown, you know, when you see that disparity, it it feeds what you're talking about. You know, if if uh people are not like fairly compensated for the value of the work and it feels like a team environment uh in the end on the pay, you know, you're gonna have problems and you're gonna have abusive behaviors. Um, so I give them a lot of credit for holding fast on that. And you know, the the founder used to say, you know, there there's there's a lot of producers in this town that could really affect our uh balance sheet and income statement. I won't hire them, you know, they're not yes, it's not it's not uh it's not worth it to my culture. I mean, I I need team players that are uh motivated and you know are gonna produce, but I I don't need a a diva here, you know, it's just not so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

It'll hurt it'll hurt your organization, it'll it'll destroy your culture. Um it's just about the results, the bottom line of how much they can win and how much they can gain, how much money they can make. You know, it is a people's business. Leadership is a people's business. Um, results happen, but results happen through people. The last question I probably put on the table for is Chip. When you when you think about that that moment where you you stop being a peer and you become the supervisor. So going from from Kali to supervisor, how do you help leaders that are listening on this call with us navigate that effectively? Because it isn't easy. Um

Serving Staff As Well As Clients

SPEAKER_01 27:12

it can be challenging. Um, you know where all the all the bones are buried, they know everything about you, you probably know everything about them, and now you're their boss.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, I I think it's um I think you know, I I as as I've you know gone through a lot, you know, a lot of John's teachings and especially his um five levels of leadership. If you if anybody listening to this hasn't uh studied the five levels of leadership, I think John just does an amazing job on this topic. You know, it's like how do you go from producer to you know manager and all the way up to you know the person with the coaching tree or whatever. But um I think that you know for for me, what's what's really important in it is um that they they understand that you have different responsibilities, uh that um it's not uh a position where things are things are going to change, that you're just gonna be with them in a different way. And um the personal connection around that is absolutely critical, that they can trust you to advocate for them uh and also respect you for uh fight finding the right way to approach uh deficiencies or uh places where they're missing, that you know, your your heart is is trying to help them become better. And the reason I say it's an opportunity is that you you know those people better than anybody. I mean, if you if you've been if you've been part of the team, I think I think you probably observed some things that uh you can jump in right away and say, you know, would you would you like to would you like to try, you know, do a role play, or you know, maybe this is a piece of your game that uh I'd I'd I'd love I'd love to like read this book together and have coffee together and uh start getting into mindset and things like that. I'll tell you, what doesn't work is uh the the other end is just like um turning the switch to like a production fiend or results, you know, person that's just like, you know, more I need I need more, you know. I mean, it's just like you know, I mean, get you know, showing the plumage or whatever. It does not work. Uh and so it you know ultimately you're I mean, it's absolutely a people uh consideration about how's that connection changing a little bit because of this role? But also, like, what's the upside of like how how you've been looking at it? Like, what would you do? You know, anybody that's listening to this, if you if you had that opportunity, what would be the most value-added position that you could take to all the people that you're going back to you know, Max Dupree? How could you serve them better? You know, I mean, it it's it fought it follows that map of you know, here's the reality, here's where our team is. Uh, my role is different now because we need to get from here to here. Uh we're behind, and uh, I'm open to ideas. Uh, you know, what what what can we do differently and make it collaborative? And you know, I had a boss once that's you know, used to say, uh, I'm a great listener, but it's not a democracy. You know, I'll think I'll think about any idea you bring me, but you know, just know that uh we're not gonna vote on this. Like I'm gonna, you know, I I get I get to decide if this is a good idea or not. Um, you know, I think building building that background of you know, you've got to have enough runway too to let let people try the things that they think is gonna work and uh see see how they work, you know. And um I don't know. It's uh the wor the worst thing you can do is start flashing the cards around and closing your door. And uh I mean it's a it's a complete disconnect.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, I tell I tell people chip once once you get into the leadership role, take the triangle and flip it upside down because now you you're you're not you're you're they're you're working for your team while at the same time they're reporting to you on the colour. That's strong. I love that wrong. I said flip the triangle inverted pyramid. Yes, you think you're at the top and you're really at the bottom, right? You know, and so if you want to be successful, you know that uh flip that triangle upside down, yeah. Um, and now you all of a sudden start working for those same people that that you are in charge of, per se, you're responsible

Going From Peer To Supervisor

SPEAKER_01 31:20

to, like you're working for them. And I say that in a manner I tell people, like, you know, um, you learn it real fast if you're a parent. As a parent, you you spend all your time working for your kids, like getting them up, taking them places, driving around, feeding them, buying the buying all the things that you're responsible for. They report to you, but you spend your time working for your child um all the way until they get 18 or 21, whatever that looks like. And I will tell people in the workforce that happens as often as well. So when you get to that level of you work hard to get here, if you if remember that you work for your people once you get into that role. So as as we as we begin to look at our time here, what would you share um as a pivotal moment, you know, for leaders that are listening, um, five generations in the workforce, you know, um social media is at a high at a at a high pace, AI is at a high pace. Um, we're constantly changing every 30 seconds. I mean, it change is a natural part of our life today. When I was growing up, I mean something would stay in place 15 or 20 years before a significant change would happen. Significant change is happening every five minutes now. What do you tell those leaders about change?

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Um I mean the I I I think I think there's two things, Ron. If I could if I could address two things, you know, I I think um one is uh just to not resist it. Um you know, I I think there there's there's so many places in sports and martial arts and all different things. It's like, you know, you've you've got you've got to find a way to be in the flow and embrace that, you know, somehow you're moving to something better, uh, more efficient. Um and then the second part is become a student. Um, and that that that's that that's the critical part is like, you know, when you're it's like when I was taking uh I was taking driver's ed when I was 15 and the guy picked me up at my house and uh I I I could tell you know it was okay in the neighborhood. And then we get out of a big road, and you know, the guy, the guy was like a nervous wreck, and um we we came to a stoplight and he said, uh Chip, I I really think this would work better if you like take your eyes off the front of the hood and like look look down the road. And I and I think you know that that takes a lot of uh energy and time uh to be studying the landscape and studying like you know, like right now with AI, I mean it can go in so many directions and think about you know what what it is that you're trying to accomplish and evaluate like how all this could come together and have have something set that's maybe two or three, you know, it may not be a hundred percent clear, but an 80% vision of where you're headed to, and it'll probably inform like what you need to test. Like you probably have three ideas that may or may not happen, but um that there are ways that you can get in there and say, well, I don't I don't think that's the technology for us, you know. I mean, this uh I've been reading a lot about it, but when I think about where we want to be, what our business is, where we're headed, and um that level of study. I mean, you can't right now, I mean, try try not to take it in snippets and sound bites. You know, find find a find a good detailed article from a trusted source and turn all the social media off and study it and come to your own conclusion. Like, I see that here, I don't see the application. And be prepared. I mean, I I think that uh we used to have a lot of time to adjust and it wasn't as urgent, but I just think that we've got we've got to be students of whatever the discipline is we're trying to master, we have to be studying it all the time. I love recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah, thank you, Chip. I love it. I mean, and that's so important, is that if you care enough about what you're doing, then you should prepare for it. And so be a really good student, take your time as fast as the world is moving. It's it's no excuse not to be prepared. Yeah, um, and I think that just that that that works totally against you, that sense of urgency. Um, it's still important, you know. And I liken it to um, you know, when you go out to eat at a restaurant, they're not gonna rush your meal, they're gonna take the time to cook your steak and deal with that with you, but they're not gonna rush it out there and then you're angry and upset. So, are you taking your time to to prepare properly what your team needs from you? And you should do that as a leader. Yeah, Chip, how do people reach you? You know, people that are listening, um, um, other people that are running podcasts, uh I would love, I would love, I'd love to hear from anybody.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

You can tell I love I love I love talking about business and leadership. So, yeah, I think you know, the the few things I throw out there, I'm on LinkedIn, uh just Chip Higgins, and uh, you know, it's it's got it's got my my book banner back there. You you'll recognize it pretty quickly. I've got my business website is busics.com, that's B-I-Z-Z-I-C-S.com. And for for speaking and uh, you know, um

Leading Through Change And AI

SPEAKER_02 35:53

just kind of workshop packages and that type of thing. I have a chipiggins.com website. So any of those, you know, they're there there are places to you know drop a note to me, uh, just reach out on LinkedIn and um I love it love having calls with people. I mean, there's no charge. I mean, I just love getting to know where people are, and I may not have the resource, but you know, one thing that I enjoy is just getting people lined up with what's going to help them. And um, so I enjoy that. Please, you know, by all means, please reach out and um you know give give give me a little direct message and LinkedIn, we can find a time to chat. Yes, yeah, it's been fun, Chip.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I mean, thank you for for taking the risk with me. Thank you, Ron. It's been great.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, yeah. Like I'm I'm speaking to a guru today, and I you know, I love being in the presence of people that know all about it. And uh just it's been a joy to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yes, we both learned a lot from John Maxwell. Yeah, yes. Well, for our audience, thank y'all for sticking with us, hanging out with Chip and I um as we share, you know, our perspective, our experiences, and really behind the curtain, pretty transparent about everything that we do. Um, leadership is the challenge. We don't need to make this conversation difficult. But feel free to reach either one of us on LinkedIn, on our social media pages, um,

How To Reach Chip And Closing

SPEAKER_01 37:03

if you go to our websites, all kinds of ways. We love to have a conversation, love to invite you as a guest, um, actually invite Chip as a guest as well. But reach out to us, we're business owners, we love doing the work that we do. So if you need our help, don't hesitate to ask us questions uh and we'll let you know what we can probably support or not support. And we make referrals. So please feel free to reach out to us. Um, you can find me on Global Core. And by the way, tag someone, share this link, tell them about Unpack with Ron Harvey. Our goal is to help as many people as we can be more effective at leading and taking care of their teams, their organizations, their families, their communities, their kids. That's important. Leadership really does matter, and we can help get better at it. Thank y'all for joining us. Chip and I will sign off. Uh, we appreciate you being with us, and we'll see you every Monday. We release another episode of another conversation that we unpack with people across the globe. Thank y'all for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpack Podcast with Leadership Consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacks Sound Advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are for the people you serve. Because people always matter.