Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
The 5 Daily Leadership Behaviors That Create Lasting Impact
Adam Malone shares his journey from technical expert to people-focused leader, revealing how his personal awakening on a flight to San Francisco transformed his leadership philosophy. He delivers five practical leadership behaviors that create lasting impact through consistent, daily application rather than occasional grand gestures.
• Making the emotional shift from being the expert with all answers to empowering teams for greater impact
• Using 360-degree feedback as a catalyst for personal growth, even when feedback is painful
• Building social capital through authentic relationships with peers and direct reports
• Asking qualitative questions rather than quantitative ones to generate deeper insights
• Embracing "yes, and" or "yes, if" thinking instead of defaulting to "no" as a leader
• Caring genuinely about your people as the foundation for business success
Text "operator" to 33777 to join Adam's leadership newsletter, or connect with him on LinkedIn where he shares leadership insights daily.
Connect with Ron
Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”
Learn more about Global Core Strategies
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Disclaimer:
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with your host, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted you joined us and excited to discuss and help you navigate your journey towards becoming an effective leader. During this podcast, ron will share his core belief that effective leadership is one of the key drivers towards change. So together let's grow as leaders. Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President, chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Our firm basically does work around leadership. We're a professional service leadership firm and we spend all our time helping leaders be better connected to the people that help them be great at getting things done in their organizations. So we spend most of our time. How do they stay better connected to those that make them successful, and that's through communication or conflict or building or development. You know so there are multiple ways and I enjoy it as an organization that we get to help leaders take better care of their people that they're responsible for and responsible to.
Speaker 2:But our podcast that we do is really we bring in leaders from around the world. We release the episode every single Monday and we bring leaders from all backgrounds, all walks of life, to share some of the wisdom and the knowledge and the nuggets that they've had, that they've learned and so best practices. So hang on as we go through this podcast and we talk about our businesses and people. We bring on our business owners, just like we are. So we're only successful because people use our services. We promote books, we talk about our services, our programs and we share some secrets to what we do internally. We don't give you all the answers and the ingredients, because we love for you to use our service, but we do share enough to make you curious that you may want to have another conversation. So I'm really excited to have Adam Malone with me. So, adam, I'm going to hand you the microphone as we dive in and let you introduce yourself and anything you want us to know about you. That I've read, but they haven't heard yet.
Speaker 3:Sure, thanks for the intro. Appreciate that I am coming off about a 20-year career in the corporate world. 17 years of that all at one location or one operation moved from analyst to VP in that time, from leading none to leading 4,000. And so when people ask me what makes me different, there's a lot of leadership consultants you can find out in the world. Why should they talk to Adam? My answer is generally you can't find a lot of operational leaders who've made the jump into consulting.
Speaker 3:I don't have an HR background, necessarily. I think leadership is super important, but I've also, you know, been on the ground solving the problems that come from boxes not shipping to different parts of the world, to customers not getting what they need to. You know all the things you have when you, you know, run a $4 billion P&L, and so the leadership consultant that has led a 4,000 person organization. And my goal in all things is to help create more great leaders, because my core belief is that great leadership is what we need in almost every facet of our life, whether personal, professional, political, whatever. A lot of our problems stem from a lack of great leaders, and so I believe that it's up to us to solve that problem and invest in the world so that we can have more great leadership in every facet of our life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, adam, I mean that's a whole lot you gave me to unpack and so you will go through. You know what I love about our podcast is you know everybody that comes on. There are no questions If you follow us or you listen to us or you share it with us. You know that all of our guests come on not knowing what is going to show up or what we do promise is we'll talk leadership. How we get there, we're not sure, but we have fun. Our guests come on knowing that, but they share a lot of great information. It's really unpacked. We have a conversation around it. So, adam, you have a supply chain background. You come out of corporate America. You don't have the HR background, but you've been in the kitchen which is what I would love to call it of how to make sure that you develop leaders. So, going from from being the person technically sharp to running a 4000 person team, what was the major shift you had to make to go from technical expert to expert of people or great leader?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm actually first going to talk about the emotional change that had to happen. And so some context. I spent about 10 years in one more corporate-y side of the business and then, right at my 10-year mark, the CEO gave me a call and asked me if I'd be interested in going and leading a new piece of work that we were doing. Long story short, we were forming a relationship with Apple. They needed someone to own that relationship, come from the cell phone industry, and I said yes, and so I moved from the corporate side of the world to the supply chain operations side of the world. Potentially didn't understand everything I was signing up for, but it was a fantastic jump, really set my career off in a complimentary but new direction and it was so exciting. I was traveling the world and that time I went to Manila 18 times over the last seven years and I was traveling to Cupertino and all kinds of places and it was really exciting.
Speaker 3:I was having a lot of fun and then, like a brick wall, running in, running into it at full speed, I was on an American Airlines flight headed to San Francisco on a Monday morning and the Friday night before I had just gotten home from 30 hours of travel to the Philippines and I was sick, had like that airplane crud you get. My wife wasn't super happy with me, my kids weren't excited that I was going out of town again and I just all of a sudden it went from being the most exciting thing in my career to before the Fasten Seatbelt sign came on. I was like someone's got to change, I can't keep doing this. And in that moment it stopped being fun and that led me to question how could I keep doing and adding all the value I was adding, but also not maintaining that same grueling pace? Not maintaining that same grueling pace.
Speaker 3:And the realization was I had assembled a team in some ways, but I had kept myself in a position of significant influence and interaction and I realized in that moment that this was no longer about could I handle the pace myself?
Speaker 3:This was no longer about could I handle the pace myself, and I had to transition into a place where I was depending on the team to be resilient and high performing, not just on myself to be resilient and high performing. And I think that emotional change from where a leader I'll say a manager from where a manager wants to be the point person and own as much as they can, to making the emotional shift to I really want to lead people and I want this organization to deliver more value than I can on my own and really to deliver more value than I can because I'm going to be gone eventually, like I'm not going to stay here forever in this team, and so that shift, I would say, was the biggest thing that I had to make to own and admit to myself that something had to change and I needed to become a leader instead of a manager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I love that you brought your personal life into it. The things that you worked hard for. You were feeling like you were no longer serving them as well as you were serving others outside of your household, the things that you're, as a man, responsible for. How did that sink in for you, though, at that moment, when you, before the seatbelt, fastened, that you realized I'm no longer living up to what I agreed to in this marriage or with these children think for me, I've never been one to wallow in pity.
Speaker 3:I prefer action where possible.
Speaker 3:And so for me, once I made that emotional shift and that acknowledgement that the old what got you here won't get you there, kind of mindset of acknowledging I have created a ton of value for this business and for myself personally by being the person with the answers, by being the person who they call when they need to send an operator in to fix stuff like that has been wonderful.
Speaker 3:But acknowledging and learning that I can get just as much value and I can create significantly more value by leading a team of people who can answer the bat phone, I think there's just a real innate thing that leaders at all level have to take on, and that is when they can realize that they are limited in how much value they can create on their own. No matter how good you are, no matter how much of a technical expert you are. On their own, no matter how good you are, no matter how much of a technical expert you are, if you don't embrace leadership at some point you will be capped out on how much impact, influence and change you can cause for your family, for your business and for the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how much does ego? I mean? You think of leaders and you think of something you know. You're doing the work that I do as well, and you're encountering these leaders. How much does ego and pride get in the way? Being a person, it feels good, to be the person that people come to. Let's be real about it. It feels good, but it's not effective long term. How much does ego and pride get in the way?
Speaker 3:I would actually say it's even more basic than ego and pride. At the high level, I think it shows up as ego and pride, but the reason it happens frequently is because for the early parts of our careers we benefit from knowing, and what I mean by that is I'm the expert, I'm the guy with the answer, I can get the data, I can do the analysis, I can flip the switch, I'm the guy that knows the answer and almost all of our accolades usually for the first 10 or 15 years of our career, even after we were like hobbyist leaders, we have two or three people working for us, but most of our value is still like our individual effort. We are given pats on the back and accolades and raises and bonuses because we knew the answer, and then, really quickly, that changes once you get a larger team or a broader scope or both, where knowing is no longer the sustainable way to add value. And so when I talk to leaders who are dealing with that, one of the things that I try to do is make certain that they feel permission to stop knowing the answer. You got a lot of value in your career and validation because you knew and people came to you to know.
Speaker 3:If you wanna keep doing that, you should take a came to you to know. If you want to keep doing that, you should take a step back and do that. But if you want to create exponentially more value than you create now, you actually need to stop trying to know the answer and you need to help other people learn the answer and then even more powerfully empower other people to carry the answer forward and then even more powerfully empower other people to carry the answer forward without you, and that's how you end up creating change. We all have egos that we need to feed, but if we can learn and realize that I can feed my need for validation by accomplishing through others, you can actually gain so much more fulfillment personally by seeing those you lead succeed and you get to see the team do more than you can do on your own. But you have to be willing to give up some of that at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what you're speaking to for those that are listening and watching. I mean, adam is really landing on what leadership really is and it's not about being the technical expert, but you say something that's really helpful for people. You do get rewarded and promoted and acknowledged before what you know, but then it gets past there. What do you tell the leader? The one or two steps they can take Adam, that's in that space right now and they got to make that they haven't gotten on that airline and they haven't. You know they're walking to the gate and they're feeling the way you felt back in that day. What do you tell them? Like what's one or two stuff that you would share, that they could do?
Speaker 3:So I would say, in my quest to create more great leaders, one of the things I like to emphasize for people is that leadership isn't about big, flashy events Like leadership is not being on the stage of the kickoff.
Speaker 3:Leadership is not the one-off once a year time when you bring your leaders together for an offsite. That is often showmanship. It can be an important part of like the final catalyst or the final whipped cream on top of the ice cream sundae. But really leadership is much more accessible than that and the hard part about leadership is not the behaviors themselves that you need to embrace, because they're pretty basic and I've got five of them we can talk about if you want.
Speaker 3:But it's actually embracing that you need to do them every day and you need to do them consistently, and 70% of the time they're going to be easy, but 30% of the time they're going to be hard, because that's when you're stressed and something's going wrong and there's a journal coursing through your veins and that's when you are tempted to not do these basic behaviors and become that problematic leader. But the more we can embrace simple, consistent issues or ideals as leaders, the more we can show up in ways that people will embrace. And then those big events, those kickoffs, those offsites, those will become significantly powerful as opposed to one-offs that people kind of say like all right, now it's back to every day. It's not just, you know, happy, fun time, you know give each other high fives at the kickoff, sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we will impact the five. So, for people that are listening, there's a book out, adam, and it's called who, not what, and I love it because it frames up what you're speaking to is who can do it, not what you can do. Who is it that you should be looking for? Who's on your team? Who do you make space for to be brilliant and intelligent, intentionally to allow them to showcase and shine on your behalf to get it done? So who, not what, and how you grow up in leadership, there's going to be a lot of what you can't do, but there's's gonna be a lot of who's can help you get it done. And so, if you're listening and you're paying attention it's not my book, but it is a book out there. You can find them on Amazon. It talks about who, not what. So what Adam is leaning into and he trains around is who, not what, as a leader.
Speaker 2:I love the word that you use sustainable. No matter how great you become, you become limited when it comes to sustainability of you doing it every day, all day. You're going to get older, you're going to slow down, things are going to change faster. You're going to want to retire. You're going to get a family. All these things are going to calculate for you and you're not going to be as accessible or as available as you love to be. You're going to need other people to do it. It's just the reality of it. One of the things that I share with people is you can't be coach and player. You got to decide which one you're going to be.
Speaker 3:And that's where I think a lot of entrepreneurs and founders get tripped up is, at some point in all of our businesses we are the player, the coach, the stats guy, the water boy. We do the laundry, we fold the towels, everything right. And so that's part of it and that's good. That's part of growing something for yourself, right. But really the unlock to sustaining that value creation is once you have been successful in that, how do you start identifying the things you can peel off and start sharing that responsibility? And then how do you start sharing that leadership and create something that lives past you?
Speaker 3:Like, I'm working with a guy right now.
Speaker 3:He owns an engineering firm and he is kind of looking at retirement in the next five years and he really wants his son to take over the engineering firm.
Speaker 3:But his son's a younger guy and has never led anyone, and so they've asked me to come help both of them develop both sides of that, because one, the owner of the engineering firm, he's got to give up some stuff, he's got to stop digging in and being involved in everything, and then his son has to step up and lead on his own. He can't just lead because he's the dad's son and it's his place right. So both of them need development to be able to make this business that's been a family business for the last 25 years and is on a growth trajectory where they might double or triple their business in the next two or three years to really be something that's a legacy for the father and potentially provides for his son and grandchildren for years to come and potentially provides for his son and grandchildren for years to come. But this transition point all relies on both of them developing new muscles and growing, and that's part of what I'm trying to help them do.
Speaker 2:Yes, you talked about the 30% time when it doesn't go well, and that's when you're probably going to be evaluated and assessed the most when it's under pressure is what I call it. Yep, you get evaluated more when you're under pressure and there's a short timeline or a short fuse and things are chaotic, and leaders get evaluated in the worst of times. When things are going well, you manage it and you'll be okay, but when your back is against the wall and it's under pressure that 30% what are some things that help us do well at those moments when everybody's watching and the lights are bright? Some things that help us do well at those moments when everybody's watching and the lights are bright.
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing is to know that you can never know when those times are coming. I mean, sometimes you can have some idea that they're coming, but at least half of the time they're just going to hit you out of nowhere, right? And so the planning for them is in the day-to-day building of relationships and trust, which we'll touch on some of that in the five. But I think embedding a daily relationship with your peers and with your people is key to being ready to survive those super difficult times. Because I was reading a book yesterday. It was talking about FEMA and how they were prepping. About a year before Hurricane Katrina. They did an exercise called Hurricane Pam, where they actually brought everyone in and did an exercise that modeled Katrina almost to the T. It's super interesting. We can get that later. But one of the things they said in that is it's really important that in the midst of an emergency, you're not trading contact information.
Speaker 3:Yes, this is not the time to hand out business cards, and in our businesses often we don't get to know our peers well enough, especially like maybe an assistant organization.
Speaker 3:Hey, I grew up in supply chain, so I know my supply chain VPs pretty well but don't know my product or my technology or my security VPs, because when you're leading a large organization and stuff hits the fan, you're gonna need those peers outside of your direct organization. And so building the relationships down and sideways, I think, is more important than building the relationships up. And often, because of focus on promotion, we develop relationships up because that's what we're focused on, as opposed to developing relationships laterally. And really, in an emergency, I need a lot of capital that I can spend with my peers, so they'll trust me, so they'll help me achieve what I need to achieve, so they'll have enough trust embedded that they know when to ask questions and when to just say, like well, ron said, we need to do it. It's clearly a big deal. We're just going to go do it and take care of it, right. But if you don't have any political capital built up and relationship trust, you're kind of exchanging business cards in the midst of your emergency. You know whatever that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, adam said you know, if you know me and you follow me, you know that Adam is sitting on a lot of things that I talk about quite often. I mean. So he's like triggering me to like, okay, go here, go there. But I know y'all are waiting for those five and I'm intentionally holding that back so you can hang out with us before we get to those five.
Speaker 2:You talk about this social capital and I talk about it quite often and I like to compare it to a credit score. Yeah, yeah, because if your credit score is a 900, you can kind of do what you want, finance what you want, but if it's a 400, people walk you out to the exit door and so what? You're speaking to Adam. It helps me understand better the value of that social capital, because when stuff hits the fan, you don't have time to build that social capital. You either have it or you don't. How did you build social capital? And then we'll go into the five. So you think about you came up from on the front lines, working your way through the system, becoming into a position of corporate ladder. How did you intentionally build social capital on the way up and not just to the boss?
Speaker 3:Well, the first way I did it is I really sucked at it and didn't do a good job. So in my career I've had three different 360 evaluations that were done for me. I'm a huge fan of them because of how impactful they were to me, so much so that one of them I keep with me. It's in a folder over here. I won't go reach for it now, but I had it nine years ago and I still read it once a quarter. And in it there were statements like Adam is often the best person for the job and that's the only reason we worked with him. There were statements like the team would prefer to work with someone else, but because Adam is the most intelligent on this topic, they will work with him begrudgingly. And there were there were comments throughout this 360 that talked about what an expert I was at the work that I did, but that on the relationship capital side, I was in a real pickle. Thankfully, I added enough value technically that people wanted me around. Yes, but what I tell people people in light of my own kind of experience was, if you're in that position, you have created a place where you were just hanging out on a ledge waiting for someone for that rock face to crumble when there's a layoff coming or when something's going wrong in the business or whatever, or you have a bad quarter right. If all of your goodness for the business is built on your expertise but people hate working with you, that will come and bite you in the butt. And so one of those 360s, especially, was a big part of that shift and I'm immensely grateful for it. That's why it's one of the services I offer now is because it was a monumental shift for me In that the biggest relationship capital thing that was impactful for me was I am a nice guy and lots of people reference that.
Speaker 3:Hey, he's a super nice guy. We love spending time with him personally. Professionally, we don't want to be around him, and I believed that because my intentions were good and wholesome and my work was great. That's what mattered. In a way it does, but only in a way. It does right.
Speaker 3:Once people have built up a perception of me, it's really hard to change that, and so what I tell people is often the largest thing you need to work on social capital wise first is you need to understand how people perceive you and then you need to put that up against the way you either perceive yourself or you want to be perceived and kind of overlay those and get the gaps and the problems and all that sort of stuff and say like, oh man, I'm not showing up how I want to show up and the problems and all that sort of stuff, and say like, oh man, I'm not showing up how I want to show up.
Speaker 3:And then we go build an individual development plan to address each of those places where the person you're showing up as is not the person that you want to be at the best time and the best day and that 30% issue is often. We have to go invest in what do you want to be all the time and define that in the light of day when the sun is shining and there's rainbows and birds are singing, and get really crisp on who you want to be when it's a dark, thundercloud day and there's a tornado headed for you. Because if you don't define it really crisply before and identify those gaps you need to work on, you're right, we get judged most harshly in those times of high pressure and when adrenaline is coursing through your veins. If you haven't defined who you want to be, you will be the worst version of yourself, and that worst version may be highly effective for a short period of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not sustainable. I'll go back to the word of sustainability. You know, over time you're on several things that's worth unpacking and you talk about how do you get things done. And once you become a leader, you get things done through other people, the social capital. What's the best method when you get a 360? Not to take it personal.
Speaker 2:I don't want to argue with you. This is your podcast, ron. It may not feel good, but it may be very accurate and you may need to do something about it. But some leaders, when they hear it, they get defensive or they say they just don't like me or it's personal, and all these other things that you use to validate how you're going to embrace it. How do you help get past that?
Speaker 3:well, you know this is your podcast, so I don't want to necessarily argue with you, but I will take a slightly contrarian point of view, if that's all right, please do.
Speaker 3:I think you should take it personally really okay tell me more, and I don't mean take it personally like, well, now I'm mad at these people and I'm going to go do things. That's not what I mean by take it personally, but if you have a really good 360, it should cut you to the core. Yes, and so I have a vivid memory. I got that the one I'm talking about about one o'clock it's like a Thursday. I had 17 pages of typed comments that my reviewers had given me. I read it and I cried in my cube and then I left the office and went and saw a movie before I went home, so that there would be some buffer between that emotional state and when I got home.
Speaker 3:By the way, I posted about that on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and my wife said is that true? I was like, yes, it's true, and there should be some emotional roller coaster. If people care enough about you to share the things that you need to work on first, you need to internalize that, because people only share if they care at some level, and so when you take it personally, you're offended. The part you need to take personally is that you clearly have issues to work on, not Sally Sue doesn't like me because she said bad things about me. The second thing to me about taking it personally is I was not showing up as the person that I said I wanted to be, and if you're not showing up as the person that you say you want to believe that fits your integrity and your core values, it should cut you to the quick and so-.
Speaker 2:I love that you're saying that and I'm glad that you took the different approach, because you're spot on. I mean, it's even helping me modify the language of how I say it. I say, you know, don't get angry about it, but personally you should go do something.
Speaker 3:Yes, transformation comes from pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're on the same page there. So I'm happy that you know the podcast is for all of us. You're spot on on that. Out of that, there should be something that does hurt enough for you to do something about it. Thank you for bringing that up. So you went to the movies, which was a really good idea to put some buffer in between it. Your wife finally here like wow, that was a real story. Yes, yeah, it happens, because most people look at us and we make it look easy. I know it wasn't easy for you to embrace it, but what is there anything that stood out that helped you embrace it? Besides, you know, let me settle down, I cry. I went to the movie.
Speaker 3:How did you get started to start making corrections? Corrections? Yeah, I was blessed with an official and an unofficial coach. I worked with a third party company that provided a coach. That was super helpful to me because they helped provide a lens to view all the comments through and help build a plan right. They're a third party, like they don't have a dog in the hunt, except they want me to be successful enough in my growth that the company will use them again. Right, and so that's the beauty of what I do. What you do is people bring us in because they want a third party. That's objective. I don't have a dog in this hunt, except the fact that, truthfully, I want to create enough value for you that you recommend me and say, man, I'd love to work with Ron again. And so that coach was helpful, very helpful in building a plan.
Speaker 3:But then also it was helpful that I had an unofficial coach, who? He was about two years ahead of me and we dealt with many similar issues. He was a friend and when they were kind of helping me identify, pass forward, he was identified from the leadership team as someone who had dealt very successfully with the same issues that I faced and the combination of both that he had experience with my issues but also that he cared about me meant that he could say and reinforce the hard things that were said in a way that I knew they came from a genuine place. And he had the context that the third party coach didn't have to say, hey, you could have handled that interaction better. Or hey, you kind of played into what people are saying about you there. Or sometimes that's just Sally and like she's a jerk, like don't let that, you didn't screw up there, she did Right.
Speaker 3:And having both of those really, really helped to sort through the feedback and put an action plan in place that was reasonable and actionable. And then that would help hold me accountable to it, because the coach, the third party coach, they can do a lot but they're always dependent on you know how much the coachee, the participant, shares. So having someone else who like sees the work day to day, has context on the work to me was was really a big part of that. That helped me. So I really encourage people to have both a third party and a mentor that cares about them and their success a third party and a mentor that cares about them and their success and hopefully has dealt with the same issues and open your soul to them. Don't hide it. And that's the fastest way to get change is to be open to the pain and the difficulty that will come from the change and tell others that you're trying to change. And the more you tell others you're trying to change, the more they'll help you change.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I like that. Adam, thank you for sharing the story. But you're spot on. You're going to be transparent. If you're going to grow, your doctor can't help you and give you the right prescription if you're hiding what's going on. No-transcript about the mentor. You're transparent about. Hey, I had to do some work and I wanted to do the work. You know, one of the things I would say for us is, once you get that 360, do you want to get better? You have to own like are you being seen? I love that. You said I'm not even showing up the way that I want to be seen, so you own that immediately, like this data is not even letting me be seen the way that I want to be seen. I got work to do, no-transcript.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so just to remind folks, it's been a few minutes since we talked about this. These are what I would say are five basic behaviors. These are not rocket science. The magic in them is in doing them every day, even when it's really hard, even when your gut tells you you know to do something different. And so the first number one is just show up authentically. And when I say show up authentically, I mean one share yourself transparently, be agenda less with your teams and your peers and acknowledge when things are going to be hard.
Speaker 3:One of the things that really frustrates teams in my experience is when the leader comes down from the mountain, comes down from the VP or the executive staff meeting and has marching orders that they have to hand out, and they act like it's going to be easy. They act like it's all a good idea. They act like it's totally clear, with no ambiguity. Any of us that have experience in the working world know that's not how it comes. That's not what happens when you come down from the mountain, the meeting with the CEO or whatever, and your VP starts handing out assignments. But you can acknowledge that with your team in a way that doesn't give them permission to not do the work well, but instead acknowledges hey guys, I know that this isn't perfectly clear or I know this isn't going to be completely easy.
Speaker 3:How can we get what Johnny is asking for in a way that is helpful but it's the least burden on the team?
Speaker 3:Because I know this is going to be difficult right In that moment. We can both acknowledge the difficulty, reinforce that we have to meet the need, but that as leaders we also get the choice sometimes to do things really, really, really hard or maybe just a little bit less hard by figuring out ways to do things better or easier, faster and kind of modeling. All three of those at the same time can show an authenticity to our team that doesn't make them feel like we're just going to carry the company torch no matter what, and so they can't trust us when we tell them things. But we can show up in a way that we can say like I'm an officer of the company, I do have to support the company as best as I can, but that doesn't mean I have to be fully full-throated, support blind allegiance, you know, marching off the cliff, and that authenticity will help people. It's one of the components of trust that we can talk about. That'll roll through these a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Love it. So, when you think about the things that you're laying out being authentic, showing up, being transparent, not going full throttle, and taking care of the team so it doesn't be coming from the CEO's office making it look easy Can you go down the list again of the five things that ensure that people capture all five of them?
Speaker 3:Oh again, of the five things, ensure that people capture all five of them. Oh yeah, the five. I'll just go one through five and then we can talk about the second one. Show up authentically, ask better questions, share your logical thought and decision processes. Number four is create a culture of feedback. And number five is think like improv, which is yes, if or yes and instead of no. That one especially has to impact because it's kind of a funny one, but I think like improv.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that'll be a good one, because that'll tie into how I operate on a daily basis too. So I mean, you'll be reinforcing what I think as well. So we hit the first show up, I think. Do you want to just share any information about before? Is there something you want to share about each one of those? Yeah, I'll share a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so asking better questions, We'll do this one and then the fifth one, but to me, asking better questions gets to what we were talking about earlier, about sustainable leadership knowing versus helping, or knowing versus creating. Often we are tempted to ask quantitative questions as leaders how much, how many, when, how long things that can often be answered with a word or a single statistic, and then someone answers that and we go on our merry way. And that was an answer I find qualitative. I find quantitative questions to lack depth. They are often very shallow and because of that, they give us, as leaders, shallow information. And so if you want to create more sustainable knowledge sharing and more sustainability as a leader, ask qualitative questions.
Speaker 3:So those are questions like how much can you explain why? Things that can't be answered in just a word or a sentence? So the way that looks is can you explain how X fits into the process on the floor? And if someone says I don't understand what you mean, well, I don't quite understand what comes before that step in the process and what comes after that step in the process, and so they'll give you a lot more information than if you just say hey, where is this in the process? Oh, it's the seventh step, it's over interceding. Oh, okay, thanks, you don't know much more.
Speaker 3:So, but if you can ask that qualitative question, and one that I really love is hey, what are you concerned about? What makes you think that there's a risk that we need to mitigate in this situation? And just listen and people will tell you everything, and often it's the risks that we really need to know about anyway. But we ask those questions in such a way that frequently people aren't willing to share them, Whereas if we first say, hey, I believe there's some risks here, there's risks to everything, Ron, what do you think the risks are? And then you'll share. And then, as a leader, you can say, well, if you were going to try to mitigate those, how would you mitigate those? And like are those expensive mitigations or not expensive? And all of a sudden we have a really in-depth conversation about things in our business that we could fix Right, and it's much less like playing where's Waldo, where I try to ask a whole bunch of questions all around and it really pulls information out of people. So ask qualitative questions ideally not quantitative questions and model genuine curiosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's almost. You know you think about now for leaders. You know AI is showing up on the horizon for everyone, and the one thing that you got to do for AI to work effectively for you whether you like it or not like it, whether you support or not support it for the audience the reality is you got to be really, really good at asking questions If you're going to get something that's very useful for you, that's going to help you do your job better. So, Adam, you're spot on, and so, if you're going to have a healthy dialogue with someone, what I've learned over time, Adam, the better questions I ask, the more information I get and allows other people to be smart, the more I make statements is all about how smart, I am Amen.
Speaker 2:So I have to become better as a leader of creating questions from a place of curiosity and not let me stump the chump.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, Sometimes the way I talk about that is, sadly, lots of the issues in the way we evaluate people are based on performance. And when I say performance I don't mean like do you do a good job, I mean performance like I'm in a meeting and the VP asked me a hard question and I answer it in a way that satisfies that VP. Or I answer it in a way that satisfies that VP, or I answer it in such a way that he's like, well, you're a freaking idiot and that whole. I love the term stump the chump sort of game. We do so much of our judgment and performance calibration off of those performance settings that this is probably a topic for another time. But what we really hurt the diversity of the people who we're hearing information from, whether it's introvert, extrovert, cultural differences, background differences are people comfortable stepping up in a meeting like that or not that we really, as leaders, if we're going to really embrace bringing diverse thought into our work, we have to really avoid the stump, stump the chump sort of game.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it and thank you for bringing it up, because everywhere we are now, people want to figure out how do you leverage it. I'm not talking diversity when it just comes to race and gender. I love that you're bringing it up and having a conversation, because people kind of shy away from it and don't want to use the term anymore. And it's not just about race and it's not just about gender. I mean, there's so much to you and I that has absolutely. I know that when you show up, you're Caucasian and you know that I'm African-American. Let's get past that. I hear you, but like, get into the room and allow people to show up as their authentic selves of the stuff that you don't see externally, because there's so much more to all of us. I'm glad you put that on the table. Do you want to share anything on your fifth one?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the fifth one think like improv. So if you've ever been to an improv training or you like improv comedy, they have a mantra that is yes and. So whenever you're doing improv you never say no. Improv is a back and forth sort of thing. Somebody has an idea based on whatever the prompt is, they get out, they do their funny bit and then a laugh and then as soon as like the last starts to crescendo, slash, plateau, I come out and I now kind of riff off of what Ron just said, and so we kind of continually build this together and the guiding principle is yes and not no, because you can't keep the laughs going if Ron's got him rolling and then I pop out there I'm like no, ron, that's not right. And then I try to like switch. It gives everyone whiplash, the laughter stops, people feel weird. So this concept of yes and and I would highlight a slight addition to that the more that we can say yes and or yes if as leaders, the more we'll get from people. So when someone brings you an idea, as much as possible say yes and yeah, you can do that and do it like this.
Speaker 3:An example of that is after COVID every one of us has been to the return to office sort of issues and different things. We're trying to make sure people felt welcome and that they had reasons to be in the office. And so one of the younger guys on my team came and said like I'd love to bring Starbucks in for my team on the two days a week that we're all here Like we know when they are. Is it cool if I do that? I'm like, yeah, of course. Like, use the Amex for it, it's not a big deal. And I said, but also like, check with your peers teams. He had some peers who were out, who were remote completely, but their team sat there. I was like, well, ask the other folks who you know are going to be there on that day too, and ask the support folks. You guys are in this group but you work with planning and procurement. Ask the planning and procurement partners that you work with also. And it meant that the spend was $20 or sorry, $40 instead of $20. And they did it I don't know 10 times or something right, but it created a whole bunch of buzz. People were excited about it. It brought those other groups into the area and they had a chat in the morning, everybody's happy to see each other, and it's just maybe a silly example, but often with leaders, we have people come to us and it's really easy to say no.
Speaker 3:No is easy, yes is hard. Often yes, and is sometimes a little bit harder. But how can we validate good ideas and then help our people think more expansively? Hey, you're just thinking about the three people that work for you. Can you think about the three people that work for your peer? So now you're thinking about six people. Can you think about the three people that support your team? Now you're thinking about, you know, nine people total.
Speaker 3:That's how you create change in organizations, is you get people to think just a little bit wider, just widen their frame just a smidge. And sometimes you can't say yes. And and that's where, ideally, you can say yes if Someone brings an idea for a product change or whatever, it's always going to cost more money. They're never cheaper, and so your temptation as leaders is to say no, right, but maybe you need to say yes if, hey, we can do that. Yes, if you can help us go work with a finance team to get some relief in our annual plan for that, hey, we can do that.
Speaker 3:If we can upgrade the packaging. It's going to be more expensive, but if we can also simultaneously reduce the form factor, we can actually negotiate lower shipping rates. So maybe we can do both of those together and offset your higher costs with the savings. And that's a yes if. So you're kind of protecting maybe your P&L or some other issue, but you're highlighting that we could do this if we get a little bit creative, and you're modeling for folks that the goal of a leader is not to say no and be protectionist. The goal of a leader is to say yes, if and yes and and be expansive and creative, protecting the bottom line but also growing the total pie wherever we can.
Speaker 2:Wow, I love it. I mean, even in real time, this is unpacked, we go through and we have real conversations about whatever comes up next. Even when we got to the point of you know this is unpacked, we go through and we have real conversations about whatever comes up next. Even when we got to the point of you know you're 360, and I say, hey, you know no, don't take it personally. You say, well, ron, I actually think, yeah, you should take some of it personally. You know so it's a yes. And or, if you know so, I think that's where you actually model it in real time for us. So, if you watch us, none of it's scripted, it's real time and we even practice what.
Speaker 2:What you just said, adam, is yes, and ron, they should take something personal because it requires them to go do some work, and so I tell you how do you embrace that? And we did it real time. So you're watching and you're listening. We're not just talking this, this great idea, we're talking about these great practices that you put into place. We do it in real time. So, ideally, multiple things. I mean you come out, you're running an organization. What are the reasons I should be calling you as a business owner, so I want to do business promotion with you now. What are some things that people should call you for?
Speaker 3:Sure, my dream what the groups I love to work with is ideally a small team, that we work with the team, and so that's going to be hey, we've got three, four, maybe as many as eight people who we can coach together, and so I have a 360 tool I can bring where we do that for the whole team and then we build a development plan that can be six months or nine months where we'll go through coaching and individual goals for that whole team, and so that ideally isn't oh man, everything is broken and falling down. It's hey, this team's doing good, but we really want to supercharge and turbocharge and do really a lot better and build maybe a leadership team that's going to take over this organization long-term. So that could be hey, you've got to. I'll use a supply chain, since that's my closest experience. Hey, we've got a high performer in procurement, planning, operations, engineering, you know, and HR. We think that they're the leaders for five years from now. We want to invest in them now. Great, bring me in. I'll help do 360s with them and help identify development plans for each of them and how they can build better teams that are based on trust, that have systems in place and can grow.
Speaker 3:That's one.
Speaker 3:The second is I also do public speaking, corporate speaking, so keynotes, workshops, offsite sort of things, leadership team meetings I've got one in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3:That is, I'm meeting with eight leaders of a bank in the morning for a three-hour workshop and then I've got all of the people leaders in the bank that afternoon and we are doing a broader seven practical ways of leadership Some of those we've talked about today and help them build a team environment where we do that.
Speaker 3:So public speaking, corporate speaking, sort of things. And then the last I'll mention, I offer you know, not everybody can bring someone in and go through the time or the expense to do like a big thing with the entire team, so I also offer a group-based coaching program that goes three times a year. My next one will start in February, but I do, like I said, three times a year 20 to 30 participants in those and we cover 12 weeks of content. It's a broad base of leadership, includes topics we've talked about today plus some others, but I'm trying to make it accessible for people that maybe don't have the time or the money, frankly, to have someone work with eight people in their team for nine months. Well, we've got other ways we can serve that population too.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing, I mean, which is important. How do people reach you? What's the best way? I mean, if people want to reach out to you for podcasts, public speaking, to come into work with the teams, what's the most effective way to reach out to you and your team?
Speaker 3:So if you're in the in the U S, it may work for Canada. Also, if you'll use the short code 33777 and text the word operator, so that's texting the word operator to 33777. That'll get you into my newsletter. Also, there's some other information there you'll get for joining that. That's how I keep in contact with people on the regular. And then also LinkedIn. I post leadership thought on LinkedIn every day. I've been posting every day for about nine months now and plan to keep that going. So both of those would be the best place to get to me.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome. And I know it's LinkedIn, it's live. I've been there so you know everybody that comes on. I go check out what they're doing on LinkedIn so I can know who they are and what they're doing and so you know as people that's on the show. So for the show, so for everyone that's watching is. Is there any last minute information you'd love to share?
Speaker 3:one nugget you haven't dropped that kind of popped up in your head that you want to share with the leaders that are listening if you want to be a leader, you have to embrace that it's not about you and frequently those of us that are leaders, we start out with arrogance and ego problems and all kinds of things.
Speaker 3:That was part of my 360. And over time, the only way we can become great leaders is really embracing that change and transformation and value comes from the people that we work with and that if we want them to grow and develop and become better than we are, we have to care about them at a deep level. And it will take time, effort and sweat and it will not be easy. But if you can embrace caring for people, the people will take care of your business. Yes, and it will be a business transformation for you, because so few leaders in the world actually care about their people that you'll stand out and I would just urge your audience to care about the people and everything else will sort itself out. And if you can show up authentically and empathetically every day, everything else will work. You just got to trust the process a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and those that follow me, that are fans and been following me for a while. You know I didn't send out any notes to talk about what he's talking about. He says so much stuff that's in alignment with what we believe and how we live and our values. But I always talk about do you really care, or do you care about the scoreboard? Are you easy to work for and work with as long as you're winning? And if the only time that you're easy to work with is when the scoreboard says what you wanted to say or the spreadsheet at the bottom gives you the number that you want, there's somebody that at some point that won't work for them and so they want to know that you care, even when the numbers don't reflect what you want them, because you're not going to win every season. It's just not reality.
Speaker 2:Nobody wins every season, and no matter how good you are, you're going to have to rebuild and you don't get to win every game, but at the end of the day, you get to make a difference. For those that are watching, those are the following Adam, I think you did a phenomenal job of just being transparent, being honest and talking about things that you've actually done in the kitchen on your journey. Not some book that you read or something that you Googled and you pulled up. You've actually done in the kitchen on your journey, not some book that you read or something that you Googled and you pulled up. You've actually walked through this yourself and you shared about who you were and how you had to change and manage your own growth. For those of you that are watching, we release a podcast every Monday, a different lead from around the world to help you get better. And as we close out 2024, what a great way to end it to talk about how do you use a 360?. 2024, what a great way to end it to talk about how do you use a 360 and with five things that will help you that you can do every single day, and you need to do them every single day, even when it's hard, and Adam already shared 70% of the time it's going to be easy to do. 30% of the time you're going to struggle, but still do it. Make the first step. If you need to get in touch with us, adam already shared the best way to reach out to him Reach out to us.
Speaker 2:You know Global Force Strategies. You can find us on LinkedIn. You can follow me on LinkedIn, which is the primary source of reaching out to me, or my website, which you will also find if you go to LinkedIn. We'd love to talk to you, either one of us. One thing I've learned about small business is I compliment and help complete other business owners that do what I do. So it's not a competition. So either one of us and if I can put you in touch with Adam, I'll be happy to do that, looking forward to working with you. Happy New Year to everyone that's following. Hope you have a really, really great time. We will be into 2025 once you see this, but thank you all for following us and we hope that you continue to follow us for the whole year. Until then, adam and I will sign off.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point Leadership with your host, Ron Harvey. We're so glad you joined us. Remember to join us every first and third Mondays and expect to receive real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, make a difference where you are and with what you have. There are those who are counting on you for effective leadership.
