Unpacked with Ron Harvey
People Always Matter. Join Ron as he unpacks leadership with his guests.
Unpacked with Ron Harvey
Empowering Teams Through Aligned Values
This episode explores the multifaceted nature of effective leadership today, focusing on the alignment of personal and organizational values, the development of problem-solving skills within teams, and the critical need for trust and communication. With insights from leadership expert Irial O_Farrell, listeners gain practical strategies for fostering loyalty and nurturing talent in a rapidly changing work environment.
• Aligning individual and organizational values
• Addressing the shifting landscape of employee loyalty
• Empowering teams through problem-solving development
• Building trust through transparent communication
• The significance of self-care in leadership
• Embracing coaching as a vital leadership skill
• Fostering a culture of performance development
• Understanding the role of leaders in guiding pathways for growth
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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey
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The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...
Welcome to Turning Point Leadership Podcast with your host, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted you joined us and excited to discuss and help you navigate your journey towards becoming an effective leader. During this podcast, ron will share his core belief that effective leadership is one of the key drivers towards change. So together let's grow as leaders. Here's Ron Harvey.
Speaker 2:Good morning Again. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President and the Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting. We're based in Columbia, south Carolina, and we're a leadership firm, and we spend all of our time really focusing on helping leaders be better connected to their workforce, and that could be through communication, team building, managing conflict, diversity, equity and inclusion. It's just been more effective for the people you're responsible for and responsible to. So we love it.
Speaker 2:But every single week, I get an opportunity to interview people from across the globe all walks of life, all different backgrounds and beliefs and it's all about leadership. So I'm really, really excited that I get to do this. But I'm always excited when I get to meet someone internationally that comes on the show and says, hey, let me share this, doing some of the same work that I'm doing in a different location, but really have the same passion to help leaders. So I have Ariel, who's going to be coming in, and so, ariel, thank you for joining. I'm super excited and I'll let you introduce yourself and share where you are and what you do.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much, ron, and I'm delighted to join you today. My name is Iri Lo Farrell and I am the founder of Evolution Consulting, and I do an awful lot of work with companies that are looking to, I suppose, be the best company that they can be and look at the best performance, but the best getting the maximum out of their organisation, their people and themselves as leaders. So I'm just always fascinated with how do you match the needs of the individual with the needs of the organisation, and that's led me on a very merry dance through. I started off in financial services, in management, organisation design, learning and development, executive coaching, change management, writing books all sorts of different things. The first book I wrote in 2011, quite a long time ago was actually a book on values. I was absolutely fascinated when I became an executive coach that whole process of uncovering your own values and the conflict that can arise from our values, and so it became my first book. It sort of once I decided that was the book that I was writing. It just sort of poured out of me the values personal values and company values and how do you align them and then, in 2020, when COVID hit, I decided that I would write my second book on smart objective setting for managers, because I have done a lot of work with managers around setting objectives and they can often set the what objectives. You know the deliver X, y and Z, but the behavioral objectives they really, really struggled with. How do you develop people's capabilities, whether it's problem solving, whether it's communicating better, whether it's influencing people? These are much more difficult objectives to set, and so I did quite a lot of workshops with managers on how do you develop smart objectives from that perspective. So I put all that into the book in 2020. And then in 2021, I wrote the Manager's Dilemma developing other people's problem solving.
Speaker 3:So one of the things that I had looked at was and I suppose I used the word manager and leader quite interchangeably, because to me, they're sort of two sides of the one coin leading people but then also kind of helping them to put in place the structures in order that they succeed. So I use the words quite interchangeably, because your ideal manager and your ideal leader pull from both sides. So one of the things that I noted was that managers or leaders often tend to be very good problem solvers and so they get promoted up because of that and because they get things done. So we promote the people who get things done. And so what I noticed was the one thing that most managers leaders had in common that they were very good problem solvers, but they weren't necessarily good at developing other people's problem solving capabilities. So they would become bottlenecks because everything would land on them and then they would get overwhelmed and they'd be working on stuff they're not really supposed to be working on, which means they're not doing their own work. You know they're getting distracted and they're not keeping their eye on the ball and they're not keep looking up and out on what's going on external to the business and within the organization.
Speaker 3:And so I actually came through my own managing and leading of people. And so I actually came through my own managing and leading of people. I kind of started asking these questions and noticed that they were coming to me with problems. They were going you know how to do this, you know how to sort this out, and yet they didn't. And I was like, oh, what's going on here? And through my own kind of OK, I gave them the answer but came back the next time. And so that book came out of that whole process of realizing.
Speaker 3:Actually, a lot of times, people don't know how to develop other people's problem solving skills, but it becomes a bottleneck in the organisation and the performance of the organisation. So that was the 2021 book, and then the next one is about reimagining performance management, performance development. I think we need to get away from performance management. I think we need to move into performance development, particularly in the complexity of today's world. I don't think there's an awful lot of jobs people can't just go into and know how to do it within a couple of days or a couple of weeks. So I think there's an awful lot more focus needs to go into developing people and putting the time and effort into them to help them to master their jobs, master their roles and become more, I suppose, part of the organization and be able to grow within the organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you've given us a lot to unpack, which really excited. I mean I think that you can bring back your values book, like right now, and it can be a bestseller again, you know. So you get to bring it back because as we look at organizations in the work that you're doing and you wrote that book around, do you see us being challenged where our personal values are not in alignment with organizational values, and how do we address that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's an excellent question because actually that book I started off. The book actually starts off talking about Enron. Do you remember Enron back in the day and their stated values and their? Yeah, I think a lot of times in my experience, an awful lot of organizations they pick the values that sound good and I've never seen this change. Quite honestly, in the last I think I wrote that 2011 like in 13 years, I've never seen this change.
Speaker 3:So it takes a lot of work and effort to actually put in what are real values of an organization, like really what they're going to stand over. So we end up with stated values and then we end up with actual values and how we know what actual values are. It's the ones that we use to make decisions. So if organizations are stating we have ABC as our values, but over the other side of the room, they're making decisions using X, y, z values. People can see this.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite sayings is actions speak louder than words, so you can have the words over on the left-hand side and on the right-hand side. Your actions are sending different messages and these need to match because people see them. People can go. That doesn't make sense. That's not in keeping with the decision I would expect if our values truly are a, b and c, and that takes effort. It takes effort and vulnerability as individuals, as part of a leadership team to go well, really, what are our values and really are we on the same page here?
Speaker 3:So to get to that point of actually having real, true values that we will stand over and make decisions through is one thing, but then it's to maintain it, because as we promote people up, it's so easy to promote somebody because they get good results without looking at their values. That's how they go about getting good results. It's very fragile if we don't look after it and we don't spend time pruning it and making sure that we are promoting people who are in keeping with the values. So that's kind of often, you know. Sometimes you'll get snippets of times when, yes, they were our values, but then we don't protect them and we let them go and the people have moved on. Those values are no longer the ones that we're using and again people can see that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love that that book was written in 2011 and how relevant it still is today. Probably even more challenged today because, when you really think about how do we come up with them? And then we have all the people in our organization that bring their own set of values into the organization. Is there a misalignment? Sometimes, because people need a job, they'll go along to get along, and so how do you get those people to really buy into your values when you're totally on opposite sides of the spectrum?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I often say people will acquiesce. So if we're talking about leaders, well, are people following you Because that's a choice, or are they acquiescing because they need to pay the mortgage or the rent? So that comes to the leaders. Are they clear? Are they imbuing the values through the organisation? Are they looking to recruit people that are in keeping with those values? And then again, if you're in a tight marketplace, you might not have too many choices as to do. We just need people to show up and do the work and it doesn't really matter. Or do we have? Are there sufficient people available out on the marketplace that we can pick and choose like this? So you know, there's a few different elements to it.
Speaker 3:A lot of times people will acquiesce if they're clear around. They'll follow it and do it. If they're quite clear around what it is, that's within my safeties or my comforts, I can do that, that I can live with, and it's when they're not clear about it and going. Well, if I'm not clear about what your values are and I'm not clear about mine, necessarily, but there doesn't seem to be any consistent messaging and I'm not really sure what is or isn't in play here, that's where you get a lot of people go off on their own little routes. I'll just be over here doing my thing.
Speaker 3:So this goes back to communication, but again, that awareness are we aware of what our values are? Are we consistently communicating it and are we, I suppose, setting out the expectations for people you know? A lot of times, when we know what the expectations are, we can kind of go, yeah, okay, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:But if we're not clear around what those expectations are, that's when we start getting people going off in other directions. Yes, yes, the workforce has changed when it comes to loyalty to organizations, with so many generations and the way that my parents would stay 40 years and they just knew they were going to be there for 40 years. That's not the environment we currently live in today. How do leaders begin to not get so wrapped Because people are not loyal like they were, like staying no matter what happened? How do you help leaders create more loyalty in the organization even though they're not going to stay 40 years? How do you create loyalty if they stay three years or 30 years? How do you create better loyalty and not loyalty to an individual, loyalty to the organization or the mission or what we're trying to get done, versus a person?
Speaker 3:one of the things I mean it was very prevalent with the, obviously the gen x. It was quite prevalent if people weren't staying as long and this kind of pattern started. But then the millennials came through and there was an awful lot of turnover and they weren't staying and they were leaving. And what was quite noticeable was the pattern of they would go to one place they weren't getting what they needed and then they would go somewhere else and they weren't getting what they needed. And they went somewhere else and they weren't getting what they needed. And then they would go somewhere else and they weren't getting what they needed and they went somewhere else and they weren't getting what they needed. And, quite honestly, I think they thought it would get better. The grass is greener, I'll go to there. And then they realized it's not any better over there. But my observation of it was that they weren't being developed, they weren't being invested in, they weren't being shown.
Speaker 3:This is the pathway. This is where you need to get shown. This is the pathway. This is where you need to get to. This is the kind of what you need to learn and what you need to master and what you need to get your head around to get to the point where you will be, you know, doing your job well, and then other opportunities will open for you.
Speaker 3:So no managers were sitting down and having those conversations and so they were leaving. They were leaving because they didn't have the direction, they didn't know what was expected, they didn't know how long should this take, and so they didn't have managers that were investing in them and taking the time with them. But my take is actually, when you start showing people here's the pathway and here's how long it'll take, and here's what you need to get your head around and here's what good looks like and here's where you need to get to, that People tend to stay for that because they go oh OK, you're helping me here, you're bringing me, you're helping me along this journey. I also think from probably yours and my time when we would have started off in work, the work was much more simple because we didn't have the technology, the levels of technology, so you were doing the basic work.
Speaker 3:You know they were doing sort of the entry level type work which was do these tasks? The entry level work is so much more complex today because technology has taken away a lot of the entry level type work today, because technology has taken away a lot of the entry-level type work and so it takes a lot more explanation and understanding because you weren't learning the basics from doing them. Now you have the technology that does a lot of those basics and you're trying to get your head around it and go well, what am I doing and what? How do I know if this is right or wrong? Or you know, and I don't see organizations taking the time to explain it to them and so they're getting lost.
Speaker 3:So to me, if you know, for companies that are really serious about keeping their people and maybe they're not going to keep them 30 years, but if you can keep them an extra six or 12 months, that's well worth it. These days Our expectations have lowered. But you know you keep somebody an extra year, extra two years, an extra three years. That makes a big difference to the organization. So double-edged sword. But I think when you develop people and give them the time and show them the pathway to growth and to develop where their career can move towards, a lot of people these days will stay for that. In my experience, yeah, for everyone.
Speaker 2:That's listening. I mean really practical tips and it's happening. Technology is there and you're absolutely right where the entry level is much more complicated than it was when I started off. But you mentioned about being able to develop people. I mean, you talk about the professional development, if you will, or growth, like really developing people. That requires almost a skill set to coach. So are you suggesting or recommending that leaders have to be in a position now where they can coach more than you and I had to when we were coming up through the ranks?
Speaker 3:I think so absolutely. When you and I were coming up the ranks, the work was much more tangible in a lot of ways, and even that was less tangible than, say, 60 or 70 years ago, but it certainly was an awful lot more tangible. It was you were doing tasks and you were carrying them out in a sequenced order oftentimes, and that would always say a first line skill of management. So you know, team leads, this is, you know, whatever the supervisors, whatever those terms, whichever the terms that there's lots of different terms for that type of first line manager role. I think one of the key skills, that type of first line manager role, I think one of the key skills of teaching that first line manager group of people is, on the job, training. How do you break down tasks into sort of manageable chunks that people can, you know, walk them through and train them up? And this is I mean, this is one of my big, big big things and has been for a long time is that we don't teach them to do that and so the work ends up floating up. So because the person isn't trained up to do the task and isn't held kind of accountable or responsible for doing it, the work sort of floats up and maybe not all of it, but some of us and the supervisor starts doing some of us, and then their work starts floating up to the assistant manager and the manager and the head of function, and so it all starts floating up and all of a sudden you've got an awful lot of work that's being done at the wrong levels in an organization. So the organization is, you know, even it could be very profitable, but to me it's still underperforming because the work has been done at the wrong level. It's probably being paid for twice, because it's being paid for the person who's supposed to be doing it and then the person who's actually doing it, and then we pay them a premium because they're probably paid more and then they're not doing their work, so that's being done somewhere else. And then there's the knock-on effects in an organization and the performance of the organization gets impacted by this.
Speaker 3:Whereas if we actually teach people that frontline manager work this is how you break down tasks into manageable pieces to train the people up to be able to do it that's a core skill that goes right the way up, because the tasks get more complex, because oftentimes they're even less. You know, functional tasks, functional processes are often documented. The more senior you get, the less the processes are documented. It's kind of what goes on people's heads and whether they're good at it or not, because organizations often don't define it anywhere. They don't just go and get that.
Speaker 3:You know, and even you look at job descriptions like lead people, you, what does that mean? When it's a manage, manage like organize, oversee, you know they're all very nebulous words and that people are going well, if you're good at it, you'll figure it out, kind of thing. So they're doing it. But then oftentimes they might have been naturally good at it. They don't really know what it is they're doing to be able to develop other people to do it.
Speaker 3:So all these things again goes back to the bottlenecks. So if you at least develop that core capability in the early days of management, then you can bring it up through the different levels of management to break it down into pieces, which is ultimately comes down to coaching goal, what it is what I'm trying to get you to do, and be able to break it down into its constituency parts, to be able to get the person or the team depending to be able to do all of the parts and work together to deliver the outcome, and whether that's sport or whether it's business and that, ultimately, is what we're trying to do with coaching. But if you don't have the ability to break it down into the constituent parts, which is the training bit, it's very hard to help people to be able to step into and master it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, Some of the best executives or leaders that I know are constantly getting coached, but they're also doing a lot of coaching in organizations. They're sponsoring a lot of people or mentoring people. Somewhere in their career they're pouring back into others. So I love that you talk about performance management but you say, hey, I think we're in a place where it's time for performance development so people can have some sustainability and growth with the organization. Like, if it's changing fast because of AI or technology, then what performance do you need to develop so they can stay relevant?
Speaker 3:Exactly, and for the organization to stay relevant, because it's very costly to bring that expertise in the whole time, particularly if there's not much of it out there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely One of the things that's showing up in workplaces and you hear it across organizations. People are doing employee surveys on the culture of organizations. What's showing up for us in the work that we're doing is a lot of organizations are struggling with people trusting their leadership team. It's at the lowest point that I've seen across the organization. How do you help leaders begin to rebuild something that's been destroyed, even if it wasn't by the current leader?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the topic of trust and the importance of it is just so important. And again it goes back to that action speak louder than words. I should probably use it from, is it Stephen M Orko?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the son.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I do that sort of what's the sweet spot, what's too little, what's too much, because a lot of times people they're trying really hard to understand and get their heads around. You know what's the one thing, what's the two things I need to do, but oftentimes it's, you know, there's too little, there's too much. There's the sweet spot. So, working with them to to articulate how are we showing up as a team, how are we showing up as individuals? What's the sweet spot of what looks good? And oftentimes we don't talk an awful lot about what's too much.
Speaker 3:We often talk about what's too little, but not about what's too much, and everything has a sweet spot and too much of it becomes a weakness yes and so it's kind of where's the boundary between we want the sweet spot, but if too much of it, where does it go too far and what's the boundary of it? And so, even in working with the organizations, particularly around the culture, there's always that piece around. A culture is not just made up of one or two elements. It might be made up of 10, 12, 15 elements. And what's be made up of 10, 12, 15 elements and what's the right amount of each of them? And where do they cross over? And values do this as well, like where do they start crossing over each other and where do they start coming potentially into conflict? Yes, because you get a lot of this and you move into something else and they start kind of eroding each other. And so where's the right amount? So that would be in terms of working with the leaders around trust.
Speaker 3:The other thing, of course, is communication is just so, so important, and I will often call out, like how are you going to convince them that this is different than before? And so, again, having that conversation around, you need to acknowledge that hasn't been trust, or you need to acknowledge that this is changing. You need to acknowledge that it's going to be different for these reasons into the future. And then you need to stand up and behave in those ways that convince them that it is different than the past. I often do that with clients saying a lot of times people don't realize they are being communicated to. So they might say well, we just had a chat. You might be saying in that chat I told you this and they were going. I know, but that was a chat, that wasn't communication, it wasn't named communication, it was named a chat. So I often tell people you know you need to put up the sign going, communication coming up, communication happening, communication just happened.
Speaker 3:So it's really, really important that leaders are clear that they are communicating and that they are in the process of communicating and telling people I am communicating with you because intuitively, whatever it is, as humans we don't necessarily pick it up that I'm actually being communicated to. They often don't pick up that this is different than before. Some people pick up the culture through. They often don't pick up that this is different than before. Some people pick up the culture through the action. They don't have to have it explicitly explained to them. Other people need it explicitly explained. So for those people you need to explicitly explain in what way this is going to be different and then make sure you obviously do behave in those ways. Otherwise you're back to breaking the trust.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. When you think about current leaders in the workforce that are getting it right, what are you noticing? The most effective leaders doing that you've had access to or had the opportunity to work with.
Speaker 3:I think there's two things that spring to mind One, that they're very solid in who they are and they're very consistent in who they are. And again, that goes to the values, that they are very consistent in their own personal values and showing up in that way, and that imbues the values of the organization. So there's a good alignment between the values of the leadership team and leaders and the organization. And the other is putting in the effort and taking the time to reflect around. What are we here for? What are we trying to achieve? Where are we going? And putting in the time to that, and then the effort to make decisions and to move towards that.
Speaker 3:A lot of times leaders don't recognize, they don't really accept that they're leaders, they're in senior positions, but they don't really accept that everybody else is looking at them to go. Where are we going? Is this the right place to go? So they don't put the effort into figuring out. I don't know where are we going, what is going on. So the really good ones have taken the time. They take the time to assess where are we going, what are we about, how are we going to get there, and then guide people towards that. So, so again, they're very clear then on their communication and it makes sense. It feels joined up, it feels like you have a good idea of where we are going and for these reasons, you're able to talk about them and that you do hear them talking about them.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thank you so much. Can you speak to, before we do the final two questions, self-care as a leader, because we tend to want to be everything to everyone all the time, but I'm also noticing a lot of those leaders are exhausted at the CEO level, so the self-care piece of it is not happening as effectively as it should. Can you speak to that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean for every leader, I think, having their own coach where they have that space. It's a safe space. The coach is there on behalf of the leader and nobody else. So they have that safe space where they can talk things through and figure things out and be challenged in a way that's safe and that they've gone down several pathways and kind of OK, having gone through down those several pathways but having the space to be able to do that, I've come to these conclusions and then it's comfortable going out.
Speaker 3:The other side is, though I would link it back to the performance again around what's really on their plate, what have they allowed go onto their plate and what should be on their plate. So again, it goes back to if the work of the organisation has gotten out of kilter. It is very difficult to get off that. I would talk about upward spirals and downward spirals. So if the work has kind of been escalated up and so there's a lot of activities and tasks that are ending up on their desk that really shouldn't be on their desk, there's the need to take the pain to put in the effort to build out the space to get the work moved to the right person's place. So you're listening to them and kind of feeling sorry and kind of going to get where you're coming because it gets overwhelming. It absolutely gets overwhelming when it gets too much and there's more pain that goes into it.
Speaker 3:I did actually. I'm just thinking back. I had a, a guy manager. He was quite senior in the organization and he had a team that the more senior people were doing all of the work of the team and the more junior people were doing they were skipping off home at five o'clock every day while the others were working, you know till I don't know nine, ten, two weeks out of every four or whatever you know. And he was just. But about six months he came to one of my development courses and about six months later I met him and he was kind of I was like gosh, that's very unusual to meet you here. And he was like oh yeah, no, I've tried loads of time now and I was like what?
Speaker 3:And he was like, oh yeah, I took on everything that we talked about in that session at that development course and everything was wonderful. And I said, that's great. Would you come on to my next course and you just have a chat with him? He said, not a problem, because I have time to do this now. So he arrived up and he explained then gave the how awful it was and they were missing their deadlines and the client was going crazy and it was like they were working ridiculous hours and all the rest of it. But then he kind of said, you know, within three months they had completely turned it around. And they said, well, how did you get the time? You were working 14 hour days, like where'd you get the time to kind of do this, to make this difference? And he said, when the 15th hour is the one that's digging you out of the hole, that's the most important one.
Speaker 2:So, as you think about all the work you've done, I mean you shared a lot of great insights. Are there three things that you would share with leaders that are up and coming and learning to navigate with all the differences in the workforce, with the loyalty, the low trust and AI coming in, you know what are three things that you would leave with leaders today that would be helpful for them?
Speaker 3:Come back to the performance and the development of people. I think leaders don't have a clear view of what good looks like in their organization at all different levels of their organizations. I think they struggle with that and so they struggle with a lot of the retaining people, developing people, building trust with people, all that kind of stuff as a result. So having that clear vision of what does good look like at all levels of the organization, having that vision there, I would say, is really, really important. The huge one is just taking the time out to reflect, just constantly taking time out to kind of like it should actually be one of the line items and job descriptions that you take time out to reflect.
Speaker 2:Yes, so thank you for sharing so much great insight for the audience, the things that they're walking away with to help them develop, which is what we do. We unpack a lot of great things and give great ideas, so if someone wants to leverage your services, you know what's the best way for them to contact you, so can you share your contact information and the things that you focus on as a company or someone's interested?
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely so. Evolutionconsultingie is the website and my email address is info at evolutionconsulting. All one word ie and the work I do is I do strategy, structure, culture and capability the two S's, the two C's to build better businesses. And then I'm also on LinkedIn and my books are available on Amazon.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Are you writing any new books? Do you have anything new coming out as well?
Speaker 3:My next book is re-imagining performance management for the 21st century, where I will be suggesting it needs to move to performance development. But I need to get everybody on board with that one first.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much, and check her out on LinkedIn. No purchase books, because the information that she's sharing I mean leadership is huge. Every organization will either be sustainable or not sustainable based on the leaders that are in those organizations and how you develop in the future of the workforce, because everybody has a time that we won't be in those roles, so who you're developing to carry the organization forward. Again, thank you so much for unpacking with us today and sharing all of that you've learned over time and for those that are listening and watching, we drop a different episode of our podcast every single Monday.
Speaker 2:There's a different leader from around the world with all different backgrounds, and our role on this is really just to unpack some things that you encounter that you don't find in a workshop or you don't find in the MBA book, or you may not have even found any courses that you're taking. We tell you real world experiences and that's kind of what I've done this for is we talk for real and unpack and have real conversations. If you ever want to find us Global Course Strategies and Consulting you can find us on our webpage or you can follow me on LinkedIn are probably the two most important places that you'll find me LinkedIn and our company's website, but thank you all for listening. Share the podcast with someone. We're excited to be able to share something with you that we know we learn and we practice every day. So at this time we'll sign off and until next time we'll see you again on Unpacked with Ron Harvey, with another guest every single Monday.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed this edition of Turning Point Leadership with your host, Ron Harvey. We're so glad you joined us. Remember to join us every first and third Mondays and expect to receive real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, make a difference where you are and with what you have. There are those who are counting on you for effective leadership.
